Current issue : #
64 |
Release date :
27/05/2007 |
Editor :
The Circle of Lost Hackers
Title : Hacking your brain: The projection of consciousness
_ _
_/B\_ _/W\_
(* *) Phrack #64 file 14 (* *)
| - | | - |
| | Hacking your brain: | |
| | | |
| | The projection of consciousness | |
| | | |
| | by keptune | |
(____________________________________________________)
Dead Underground, for this new Phrack issue, The Circle of Lost
Hackers has decided to start one more new section entitled "Hacking
you brain". We already hear you: "what the hell this subject is in
relation with computer hacking???". Well, as we already mentioned in
other articles, for us hacking is not only computer hacking but
it's much more.
The following article, as you will understand, talks about out of body
experiences. By publishing this article in a magazine like phrack, we
know that it will bring scepticism. The author, in this article, claims
that such out of body experiences are possible. One of the main rule
of the underground is to not be blind and trust everything simply because
an authority claims it, to try everthing by yourself with criticism
and a totally open mind spirit. It's why, for us, the unreasoning
credulity is something more blameworthy than a presumptuous and septic
guy who reject facts without examinating if they are real.
Even if an out of body experience is interesting, what is more interesting
is the new implication that it leads up. It's unrecognized by the current
Science even if it's known for ages. If the following information are
true - what we affirm - then it's revolutionary. Be able to live out of
your body means that the dead is no the end but only one step that we all
have to pass over.
All these reasons make us think that publishing an article like that in
Phrack is a good idea. Because before being a computer hacking magazine,
phrack is dedicated to spread the occult knowledge, unrecognized and
subversive.
We let you discover - and experiment - by yourselves this fantastic
phenomenon that are lucid dreams and out of body projections so that
you can make up your own opinion.
Have a good read.
----------------------------------
The projection of consciousness
by keptune
Since the Ancient times, as far as we know, humankind has been animated by
the most impressive curiosity for almost everything, especially for this
strange thing that is the Mind : something concrete although impalpable to
the subject, yet invisible to the world. Some of the oldest carvings and
paintings that have been discovered in Africa are full of dream visions
and abstract symbols, most likely depicting chamanic inner travels.
However, it appears that the .power. to investigate how the mind works and
to retrieve pieces of information on the consciousness and its mecanisms
has been monopolized early in History by a few ones. Call them chamans,
sorcerers, wisemen, etc., they have gained a social position through the
ages by grabing the exclusive rights of these investigations. Which might
has been wise at first, as the initiations to these practices were mostly
done from master to disciple in order to keep the teaching intact. But
indirectly, it has led the majority to be ignorant of these subjects,
almost fearful about the workings of the consciousness and what could
modify it. When the time came for the brand new .modern science. to
study the Mind, during the XIXth century, some would have thought that
everything was about to change. But in place it was only the continuity
of the past traditions, although by fathering new ones: psychologists,
psychiatrists, neurologists. Nowadays, if you do not have at least a
master degree in one of these subject, you are simply considered ignorant
by the scientists about the mind. That.s right, your . own . mind, your
consciousness. You are just not .authorized. to talk about it, or mocked
at if you try, like a child who would try to build a skyrocket . cute,
but impossible. It is no more than another form of monopoly, to control
the main dogma of materialism in our society. It is like saying that
you are not intelligent enough to think about it, so just do not try,
serious people are doing it for you and will tell you what to think and
how to apprehend your own life. Meanwhile, just work, consume and enjoy.
But guess what: these people, most likely unconsciously as they are being
.manipulate. too by the main dogma, just want to make you think that
you canno.t know anything about the mind, your . own . consciousness,
without them. And you would be a fool to try in spite of this all-powerful
fact. Which is just wrong. Seriously. In fact, you are the one who
is all-powerful about his own consciousness. But you must use it, and
bring it to unknown territories in order to understand it by yourself,
which is the only way. Some might be thinking at this point: my mind
is what it is, what is he talking about? Sometimes I am sad, or joyful,
but my mind stays the same beneath that. Well, wrong. You just did
not try to change it, to push it to it.s extreme. I am talking about
something with the same subjective difference than the physical reality
and a dream. Think Matrix, less the glasses, the robots and the giant
killing computer. I am talking about a skill that anyone can develop:
projection of consciousness, one of the most amazing faculty of the mind.
What is projection of consciousness? Have you ever lucid dream? I mean,
dreaming and knowing that you are dreaming? Realizing that the world
around you is just an illusion created by your mind and you did not
notice it at first? That is a type of projection of consciousness, the
lowest one in fact. You are projecting your mind out of the feeling
of your physical body, into another reality. Dreaming is a type of
projection of consciousness, although non-lucid one are the lowests from
the lowest, not very interesting for the real mind raiders. But it.s
a good bridge to do some more serious projection activities. At this
point of the article, I know that some are already thinking: whatever,
dreams are not real. WRONG. That is a typical shortcut from the dominant
materialistic, so-called .scientific., dogma, which considers that all
that is not palpable is not real. Then your mind as a unity of perception
and consciousness is not real, because guess what, even the best EEG
canno.t find where the mind sets in the brain (if it is in the brain at
all). All they do is record electrical signals here and there. For your
mind, the dream is as solid and real as physical reality. That is why
you wake up sweating from a nightmare, with you heartbeat at 200, and
still all frightened during a few minutes. Or at the opposite, you wake
up with a feeling of completeness after a really amazing and beautiful
dream. Right? A dream is impalpable, but it is real nonetheless for the
observer, you. And now think about this: about one sixth of your life is
made of dreams. Almost an entire seperate life, which most people just
disregard as unreal (=impalpable) and therefore uninteresting. That is
just sad, when you know all the amazing possibilities of the mind, which
can . and will . really transform your life by bringing your attention
to a whole new dimension. Something noboby has ever talked to you about
I guess. Something that is still mostly undiscovered, where you are a
real pionnier.
If you have never even lucid dream, you are situated right now at the
first floor of a skyscrapper, ignoring that there is an elevator just
behind you that could bring you in no time to a flabbergasting landscape
and a whole new perspective. Seriously. You canno.t know what your
mind, your consciousness, is made of unless you accept to explore it by
yourself. The modern scientific method tends to analyze from an outside
point of view, which just canno.t led to a full understanding. It would
be like trying to understand how you watch works without opening it up
at one time or another.
I guess many are thinking right now about shrooms, pot and crack, salvia
divinorum, entheogens, hallucinations etc. That.s on the exact opposite of
what I am about to explain. You do not need anything more than yourself
(and hopefully your mind too) to project in full consciousness. Plants
have been used a lot by chamans to attain different levels of perception,
but nowadays it is very unlikely that you know a chaman that could
guide you into a safe practice using them. Taking some is therefore
not recommended for projection of consciousness, as you need to be
fully aware. Moreover, some might just think afterwards that it was
hallucinations due to the drugs, which would ruin the whole point of
the experience.
So let us start. From my own experience (it is always important to speak
by experience on this subject and not from books or theories, even more
as the point is to gain a first-hand knowledge of all this), there are
different levels of projection (the fact of putting your consciousness
out of the perception of the physical universe, into another form of
reality). From the lowest to the highest:
- dreams
- lucide dreams
- wake initiated lucid dreams
- full physical projection
- higher projections
Everyone knows dreams. Well in fact some people never remember their
dreams, but everyone can after only a few days of training (thinking
hard about the last image in mind just after waking up for example is a
good way to progressively remember full dreams). I won.t talk about it
here as everyone can achieve this state quite easily.
Lucid dream is a type of dream that not everyone has experienced, or
for some only a few times. It is dreaming and realizing that something
is wrong, and eventually that you are in a dream. It opens up a whole
new perspective to dreaming: have you ever thought of controlling the
whole universe? Well, with some training, you can in lucid dreams. It
is also a place to meet solidified parts of your psyche, your
subconscious. Characters become interfaces with deeper parts of your
mind. You can retrieve old of lost information or interact with your
own mind by creating psychic anchors through them. You are like inside
of you own mind, I mean . really . inside, the universe around you is
a symbolic materialized form of what you thought was so impalpable
in the waking state. You can go on the lowest levels of your mind
.programs. (i.e. your personality etc.) and modify them. Or you can just
create your own worlds, and enjoy the landscapes, the .people. you meet
(parts of you in fact, with sometimes what seems to be a real kind of
independent behaviour and own proto-mind). Something I am experimenting
with lately is fusioning with the strongest .people. (part of my psyche)
that I encounter. I just ask to fusion and our bodies melt into one. It
is a really amazing experience each time, and I gain a lot of knowledge
that I did not thought I had. It is like reunifying my mind little by
little. Well, the possibilities are almost limitless, so just think about
anything you would like to do, and you can! It is also a good place to
face blocages and fight them. The result in the physical life is real
if you win. Some have destroyed their OCD in this state, others have
gained enough willpower to stop drugs or take control of their lives etc.
Becoming lucid for the first time can be however some kind of a
challenge. Fortunately, many types of training have been developped. Here
are a few ones. I encourage you to google these for more information
and technics:
- Make your watch beep every x minutes. It can be quite annoying for other
people though. However, this beep will progressively be integrated by your
subconscious mind and will start to appear in your dreams after a week or
two. What you must do (in physical reality) is check out your surrounding
everytime your watch beeps. Do this seriously, it is really important to
get totally involved into this verification of reality. Try to remember
your whole day, and the past days, for chronological problems etc. Do
not think that you are in the physical reality but really imagine that
you might be dreaming. If you realize that there is a problem, well,
congratulations, you are doing a lucid dream now.
- Do some reality checks the same way when you see something strange, or
on the opposite (which might work better for some) when you do something
really basic, like washing your hands, or opening a door. Do it each time
for a few days or weeks, and very seriously (at least for one minute). You
will become lucid if you try this while dreaming after it becomes a habit
(as it will be integrated by the subconscious mind).
- Before you go to sleep, while laying down in your bed, feel the world
around you, feel that you are lucid, fully aware of yourself. Repeat a few
times .I WILL be lucid tonight, I WILL be lucide tonight .. while holding
the feeling of lucidity. Do this until you start sleeping if you want.
Once you become lucid in a dream, stay calm and enjoy. Repeat loudly
every five seconds (to prevent you from risking to lose your lucidity and
being caught back into a normal dream) that you are lucid, it will help
you stay in this state. You can try to fly to move more easily into your
created universe (lift your legs and even move your arms as if you were
swimming might help at first), but do not try harder stuff like going
through walls, teleporting or creating big objects from nothing before
you have enough experience to stabilize entirely your dream. Indeed the
mind does not like lucid dreaming at first and it will try to wake you up
(in this case, if you feel that the dream is losing consistency and the
image is disapearing, concentrate very hard on your five senses, touch
the ground, look closely to some details etc. This will help to get you
back into the dream but you might lose a lot of mental energy doing so so
repeat actively that you are lucid after that otherwise you might lose
your lucidity entirely), or to make you lose your lucidity (typically,
by catching you back into a scenario . a naked member of the opposite
sex (or same, depending of the sexual preferences) might appear, someone
will tell you that something has happened to your house, a giant dinosaur
might start chasing you etc., anything that would get you involved into
the dream will be used, so do not get caught and stay focused!
If you have imagination and willpower (which I am sure is the case),
you will see changes in your everyday life and personality in a matter
of weeks of practice. Your centers of interest might change, as well
as what you feel is important in life, so stay aware of your needs and
aspirations. However, this kind of dream initiated lucid dream is still
not as powerful as a .full. lucid dream.
What I mean by full lucid dream is a dream initiated from the waking
state. Ok, some might think that dreams can only be initiated from
this state, as we go to sleep etc. But do you ever remember the exact
instant when you enter your dream? And moreover, being fully aware
during the whole process? It is a really flabbergasting experience
the first few times. It is like being suddenly propelled into another
world. If you thought dreams appeared slowly, that is far from reality,
as the transition from your black mind vision to the full-colored and
3D dream takes no more than a second. You suddenly feel a new body,
into a whole new world surrounding you. The experience of a WILD
(Wake Initiated Lucid Dream) is extremely joyful and what one would
call .real.. Appart from what is happening (you are flying etc.) the
world seems as real and solid as the physical world would. But it is
more of an Alice in Wonderland thing going on. Doing a WILD is a bit
more tricky than a dream initiated lucid dream, but nothing impossible
to do fortunately. One technic that is very effective is visualizing
(=imagining and feeling) yourself walking into a known place (a mall,
a street in your neibourghood etc.) I think that it is important to
visualize some place you know (and not an imaginary one) as this will
stimulate your subconscious in a passive way: it is less demanding to
the mind to remember things than to create them. I will also prevent you
from daydreaming a scenario and eventually fall asleep without noticing
it. So just lay down, close your eyes, relax for a few minutes and start
visualizing without moving. It is important to really feel yourself in
that place. Do not stop whatever you feel or happens. The transition will
be really quick as I said. Once you suddenly find yourself propelled into
a dream environment, concentrate on stabilizing your lucidity but touching
things, watch closely whatever is near you etc. And then . Well, enjoy!
About enjoying, by the way, some might want to trigger sexual fantasies
in these states. Everything is possible here, remember, and all will
look as solid as it could. In fact sex is even better most of the times,
more intense. But climax will bring you back into the waking state,
and before that you may lose your lucidity as you will get too involved
into the scenario. There are much more interesting things to do while
lucid dreaming, but I understand that some want to try different things.
A higher type of projection has been mastered through times by a few
ones. Originally, it was used by chamans and sorcerers in traditional
societies to retrieve information on a member of the tribe or the village,
i.e. his illness, or discover hidden things. This technic is called by
some out-of-body experience, but I prefer the term physical projection.
Indeed, although real, lucid dreams stay mostly in a totally subjective
universe, there are you own creation. But the mind, our consciousness,
are not limited by the physical boundaries. Crazy? Well everyone thinks
that before he actually does it. What I am saying here is that it is
possible to be in the physical world while not inside your physical
body. How does it work? It is highly debated even amongst those who
practice this. However, it works, which is the important point here.
The easiest way to understand this is by trying it by yourself. One
technic that I developped early in my experimentations with the mind
was the physical projection initiated from a lucid dream. That.s right,
a projection of consciousness inside another projection. It is really
easy so even if you are a full-time skeptic, give it a try. Once you
become lucid in a dream, following the technics explained hereabove,
allow yourself to fall backwards without trying to catch oneself. This
will trigger very powerful sensations, so be prepared to the shock of your
life, really. Most of the times, this is what will happend: while falling
backwards, the image of your dream will disappear as if you were losing
consciousness in the physical world (it becomes black). A strong feeling
of being pulled down will appear and you will hear some very loud noises,
like if you were standing really closely next to an aircraft about to
take off. It can be quite frightening, but stay focused. You might see
some bright flashes of light, like being propelled at full speed inside
a tunnel formed by black clouds during a storm at night. Suddenly,
you will find yourself floating a few inches above your bed. You will
most likely feel very weird, and might not see your body, although if
you try to touch your hands you will feel them, but your body might be
invisible (or more precisely like the predator in the eponym movie). The
environment will be strange too: you room will be your physical room,
but something will feel different. In fact, you will be able to get
through every object, like a ghost mostly. However the environment will
also be very permeable to your thoughts, so if you concentrate to see
something it will appear until you stop to focus. You will feel very
different than in any dream, even lucid, and will be in full possession
of your memory. You should keep your first projection of this type short
however, in order to keep vivid memories from it. You will soon understand
first-hand the differences with dreams and how to act in this new state
of existence. However, be very careful with what you think or do, as
even if this type of projection is very stable (unlike a lucid dream),
you can soon be sucked back into a dream-like environment, or your body
(your might feel tingling sensations in your limbs at this point, and
have painful areas on your body, but don.t worry). So stay focused.
A test that many projectors like to do is putting a playing card on
top of a furniture without looking at it unless they are in a physical
projection, in order to check it later and confirm the projection. But
even without that, you will soon be amazed to observe that you can verify
a lot of what you see in this state. For example, this happened to me
a few years ago : it was early in the morning and my girlfriend left
the bedroom, to take a shower or eat her breakfast I thought. However I
was very tired and soon get back in a very deep relaxed state. I pushed
my consciousness frontwards and found myself hoavering above my body,
fully aware. I floated through the room, then through the door, the hall,
another door, and eventually was in the living room. I was surprised to
see that my girlfriend was sleeping in a f.tus position on one of the
sofas, in its left corner, her face against the back and my coat (which
I had left in the hall) as a blanket. I felt a powerful force sucking me
back inside my body at this point. I immediately checked what I have seen:
everything, down to the slightest detail, was correct. This kind of thing
has happened to me a lot since then. You do not have to be religious,
of even believe in life after death to make this experience, just try
it before you make your own judgement, but give it a try at least.
As you read in the experience I shared just above, I did not project
physically from within a lucid dream. Indeed you can project from
full conscious state too, which is even more powerful. If you want to
learn more about these technichs, I suggest you buy some books about
this subject, like the trilogy of Robert A. Monroe, a classic written
during 30 years of experimenting by an electrical ingenieur which found
himself projecting without even willing it. There are many good books out
there. However projecting from a fully aware state is much more difficult
(but feasable of course), so be prepared to spend some time in training
(usually a conscious projection can be attained in a few days for the
gifted to a few months for the ungifted, like I was).
It seems that there are higher states of projection, apparently in some
all-mental levels, but in an objective, all-mental, universe. I have
yet to get into these, but hopefully some of you will get there in a
few years. Let the community of projectors of consciousness know your
discoveries at this time, as it is all about sharing. Indeed, projecting
your consciousness is even more than a life-changing experience, it is
a matter of protecting your freedom, your freedom to exist as a mind and
a body, and to use both to their extreme limits, and even beyond. Noone
can take that from you, even locked into the smallest and deepest prison
of all. It is not even about believing, it is about trying by yourself
to push your limits out of the ordinary, out of the known into mostly
or fully unknown territories, and discover your true nature doing so.
See you in other levels of consciousness.
K.
I jeffersom hacker queria ser
Check it out:-
203.125.35.229 PPTP VPN
Login ID: my
Login Password : my7789
Dr. skeptic fails to realize that not only can consciousness exercises help as a form of spiritual (the kind that carries over) and psychological therapy, which seems to be a direct consequence from nearly every account I have read about, but it also weakens the veil that separates us from the higher potentials of our minds (like photographic memory, extrasensory ability, etc), and thus the greater reality which he obviously hasn't experienced yet.
Binaural or heterodyne frequencies can often assist with entering altered states quickly without the use of drugs or esoteric BS.
i want to be a hacker.so help me plz
You all sound like a bunch of believers to me! But what practical benefits can be gained from all this lucid dreaming and OBE? All your doing is sleeping your life away! Or are you just in it for the flying sensation.
Maze, you're totally right.
There's no need to argue over this - all the article gives you is information - take it or leave it.
If you don't want to try and experiment - don't.
No one's forcing anyone to do anything.
This is very interesting to me. For a very long time I've been able to control my dreams. I don't remember how it started, all I know is that once I figured out I could do it I did it all the time. I would go to bed, lay there for a moment, and just decide to make a dream. Often I would "wake up" in a dream. Like I have a dream every so often, it used to be a nightmare, where a werelion was stalking this house that I'm in. It's like a bad horror movie. Anyway the first time I had it it was a nightmare. The second time it was deja vu. Every time thereafter I would suddenly go. "Oh yeah, this thing. I've dreamt this before" then I would start to manipulate it. I'd wait until the lion jumped in the window the first time and cut his head off. Or just screw around or completely erase it and change the dream completely. This biggest problem is that recently I've had fewer and fewer dreams. I want to try out the astral projection. I'm going to probably try creating dreams then go from there, but it may take a while. I actually think I've had one of those out of body experiences before, but I don't remember it too well. Anyway if anyone wants to contact me and maybe discuss possible ways to get into it again, I'm very interested. My email is AnisonsWings@hotmail.com Please notify me.
Reality, its all about reality. Your reality versus my reality..my Mighty Psychic Powerz against your Mighty Psychic Powerz..
The Lucid Dream Team will face the Nihilist Nothings today on the battleground of your mind to see who can sway you to your side.
We could spend the next sixty four issues of Phrack arguing about whether reality exists or not without ever budging everyones opinion to the same side.
Such is the human condition.
I suspect this is likely why the old crew probably left off the subject. It's difficult to give one person's experience without it being all but lost in a flood of other experiences and view-points.
@HEx & N5naa:
Keep in mind, I used the term "spiritualism" in its broadest sense to cover everything from religion to philosophy.
OMG!! after I read Seaker's post, I just remembered I experienced almost exactly the same thing.
This also happened to me as a child.
At first, I remember not being able to wake up from dreams or nightmares. Later on, I remember discovering that I had the ability to wake myself up from nightmares.
I would just realize (during the dream) that it was a nightmare and I would mentally instruct myself to wake up.
One time, I had a dream about flying. Now I seem to remember that I had enough control to *start* the flying, but I didn't have enough control to steer. I remember during the dream hoping that I wouldn't land, because I wasn't sure if I could take off again.
The only reason I remember it, is because:
1) Reading seaker's post jogged my memory.
2) It was probably the single most enjoyable dream I've ever had, period.
However now (I'm 19) I hardly ever remember my dreams at all.
Normally, I would have dismissed this article as rubbish, but the fact that it's on phrack gives it *some* credibility.
I'm definitely doing to try this out for myself now. I can't even begin to imagine what I've been missing out on, if it's true!
The idea about 'out of body' experiences just doesn't seem plausible.
HOWEVER, the idea about being able to control a dream seems *very* plausible.
What's more, it seems like something that would be worth trying to achieve.
About being able to trigger such dreams at will, I imagine that it would be so enjoyable that it would be psychologically addictive.
If I had that ability I would worry about neglecting my real life in favour of lucid dreams.
BTW I have experience a lucid dream (didn't control it). A hacker friend of mine claims to have once controlled a lucid dream.
this is also my opinion.
nothing exists, whatever you do, who cares about it in the end?
Of course i don't.
Neither do you.
Or my computer.
I'm a nihilist, you see, for me nothing exists.
Yeah, like Hex! @_@
Since by his own admission, he doesn't EXIST! :O
Illusion mimics out-of-body experiences
http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070820/full/070820-9.html
Read real science, not pseudoscience!
Let's call it an illusion o_0
@n5naa:
Gee, ionno...
Let's play kindergarten and think of a name together!
GROUP HUG!
Seriously, I KNOW spiritualism fits best, but it just doesn't sound right...
Out-of-body experiences created in lab
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/2007/2013934.htm
@Hex:
What would you call it?
Please don't use the term spiritualism... It sounds so.... Bogus, ionno.
Just not right.>_<
The only point I was trying to make here is that the subject matter being discussed here falls under the subject of spiritualism, as MazeRunner pointed out, and that there is nothing that can be proved or disproved. I was only trying to explain why. You can only believe or disbelieve it, but you cannot use science to test it's validity. Such as creating an empirical test to prove it as the author suggested. As Hex pointed out there is nothing material here to test.
Great article, though. A topic that will require more and more discussion as we approach the merging of robotics and the human mind.
Dear Phrack readers,
Thank you for making the forum alive, we enjoy it as much as you do in the Phrack staff.
I personally think that keptune's article is not a an article that report a scientifically proved reality, as pointed n5naa in his comments. As such, it should not be interpreted as a bible of religious content, and every point of it should be questioned.
However, this article was written from the experiments of the author, and such testimony is not unique. We think that Phrack is not just like a scientific magazine, but also an alternative content for the underground community. As such, this kind of article will continue to feed Phrack in the future. We try to be very selective in what we publish, but this is a new category which has to find its way into the magazine.
We will talk to you guys later on the forum. Please keep it reasonable and self-moderated.
A phrack staff member
Wow, you have problems...
haven't you even considered anything that anyone here said?
There IS NO physique, therefore physical evidence do not exist, either.
Neither does cancer, or dreaming.
Or computers, or the internet, or electrons and protons.
NOTHING.
It's not real, get over it.
You're so out of picture here - like a homophobe in a GLAADcon or something...>_>
The card is still lying on my bookshelf. Any one of you are welcome to float over and tell me what it is. That is my experiment. The fact that you have not done so proves my point. Of course, one of you would have to be present when I place the card and turn it over or it proves nothing. and the card, of course, would have to be placed in a tamper proof container. If I do it myself you have no way of knowing if I cheated or not. It proves nothing. That would constitute an Anecdote, just as the original article by keptune does.
Anecdotes Do Not Make a Science.
Anecdotes--stories recounted in support of a claim--do not make a science. Without corroborative evidence from other sources, or physical proof of some sort, 10 anecdotes are no better than one, and 100 anecdotes are no better than 10. Anecdotes are stories told by biased and selective human story tellers. Farmer Bob in Puckerbrush, Kansas may be an honest, church-going, family man, but we need concrete physical evidence of an alien spacecraft or alien bodies, not a story about landings and abductions at 3:00 a.m. on a deserted farm road. Likewise with many medical claims; I do not care if your Aunt Mary's cancer was cured by watching Marx Brothers movies, or taking liver extract from castrated chickens. It might have gone into remission on its own, which some cancers do; or it might have been misdiagnosed; or, or, or....What we need are controlled experiments, not anecdotes. We need 100 subjects with cancer, all properly diagnosed, 25 of whom watch Marx Brothers movies, 25 of whom watch Alfred Hitchcock movies, 25 of whom watch the news, and 25 of whom watch nothing. Then we need to deduct the average rate of remission for this type of cancer, and then do a data analysis to determine if there is a statistically significant difference between any of the groups. If there is, which would be extraordinary, we better get confirmation from other scientist who conduct their own experiments separate from ours, before we hold a press conference to announce the cure for cancer.
Any volunteers? I didn't think so.
Unless, of course, you guys have some new way of conducting science that no one has ever thought of before. In which case you had better get corroborative evidence from outside sources and the scientific community or no one will believe you whether you are normal or insane.
dear n5naa,
why dont your test it yourself and tell me then if it works or not. People are always bashing themes they do not tested before...
ps:everything what in ur mind lies is real...like being insane: if are insane u will not know it,so tell me why u claim to be normal and not insane? :D
Exactly, deadbeef.
The great German theologian Paul Tillich, once said, "God does not exist. He is being itself beyond essence and existence. Therefore to argue that God exists is to deny him."
If we think of God as a thing, a being that exists in space and time, it constrains God to our world, a world of other things and other beings that are also restrained by the laws of nature and the contingencies of chance. But if God is the maker of all things and all beings visible and invisible in heaven and earth, God must be above such restraints: that is, above the laws of nature and contingencies of chance. "The question of the existence of God can be neither asked nor answered," Tillich explains. "If asked, it is a question about that which by its very nature is above existence, and therefore the answer--whether negative or affirmative--implicitly denies the nature of God. It is as atheistic to affirm the existence of God as it is to deny it. God is being-itself, not a being."
If there is a God, the avenue to Him is not through science and reason, but through faith and revelation. If there is a God, He will be so wholly Other that no science can reach Him, especially not the science that calls itself Intelligent Design.
Theroretically, You could replace God in the above statements with the Soul, a Spirit or a ghost and they would still be true. Which is what you are talking about when you talk about OBE's. Therefore, to accept OBE's one would have to accept them on faith alone and that no science could reach them.
Which means that no one will be able to float over and tell me what playing card is lying on my bookshelf, because that constitutes a science.
Actually secret sect in the Buddhism has a kind of practice also about the dream. I think the key thing is also the same, just keep you self-aware, and even in the so called reality, you keep telling yourself that you are in the dream, and when you really in the dream, you will chronically tell yourself you are in the dream, and then you will know you are in the dream when you are in the dream.hahhahha..... It is really good.
Dudes, I don't suffer from insanity, i enjoy every minute of it...>_>
Think about it - As long as you believe your sky is blue, it seems that way to you.
If I come forward and tell you it's red, you'll think I'm crazy.
So what if I'm crazy?
Nothing has real shape, or color, or even mass.
Nothing exists.
Our brain shows us images of what we perceive with our eyes, our nose, and our ears, but all those are formed by nothing more than vibrations of air, molecules floating into out body(which, btw, doesn't exist, either), or light reflecting from a surface.
By bypassing all those filters, we can see things distant, or even non-existent to the human eye.
Here's an experiment - Most cameras filter out the Alpha range channel of the light spectrum. Take this filter out, and you'll see through some clothes.
Our brain filters out non-visible or obstructed objects. Take that filter out, and you can see through virtually anything.
@Hex:
Re: "Prove me wrong"
It is not I who is making any claims, It is "YOU". I merely ask you to prove your claim. There is nothing for me to "prove". Science has already done that (http://www.n5naa.com/shermer/Demon-HauntedBrain.pdf). But I guess you missed this.
There's a million dollars in it for you if you can.
After all, it is you who believes it is real, so there shouldn't be any problem, right? http://skepdic.com/randi.html
From "The Baloney Detection Kit" by Michael Shermer:
Burden of Proof:
Who has the burden to prove what to whom? Herein lies the social nature of science and knowledge. The person making the extraordinary claim has the burden of proving to the experts and to the community at large that his or her belief has more validity than the one almost everyone else accepts. It works a bit like a democracy. You have to lobby for your opinion to be heard. Then you have to marshal experts on your side so you can convince the majority to "vote" for your claim over the one commonly held. Finally, when you are in the majority, the burden of proof switches to the outsider who wants to challenge you with his or her unusual claim. The burden of proof is on the creationists to show why the theory of evolution is wrong and why creationism is right, not on evolutionists to defend themselves. (Evolutionists had the burden of proof for a half a century after Darwin and now enjoy the reversed roles.) The burden of proof is on the Holocaust revisionists to prove the Holocaust did not happen, not on Holocaust historians to prove that it did. The burden of proof is on Eric Lerner to prove the Big Bang never happened, not on cosmologists to prove that it did (though this has only very recently made the shift). This is the price you pay for being an outsider, regardless of whether you are right or wrong.
Yes, hallucinations are real because you experience them, but only to you and only in your own mind. After all, you can become quite disoriented by your own hallucinations, just ask any Schizophrenic.
Perhaps these kinds of things (i.e., OBE's) will have some meaning when we begin to interface computer chips to the brain and are able to control things in the real world with our thoughts. But until then they can only be relegated to meaningless hallucinations.
But just in case, I am wrong, I have placed a playing card on my book shelf. Anyone wishing to tell me what card it is, is welcome to come forward or float forward, whatever the case may be!
@Hex:
If you really think that everything you see and feel is just what your brain shows you, perhaps you could tell me what your brain tells you here.
http://www.n5naa.com/images/illusions.jpg